tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-361043232024-03-06T02:38:35.990+11:00Catcher in the Argotorphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-86834447474297961482020-07-14T12:43:00.000+10:002020-07-15T10:04:45.828+10:00Are Multiple Personalities Real?<br />
I asked 7 people who were diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) (also known as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)) a series of questions about having multiple personalities.<br />
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I hold these people in the highest regard for their courage and honesty.<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4U50x66AhbT2WCIMmY4rK6bCW8cRX2SYddS8h57v1z0-J9zxDF3qIowyrEUG_alARvFwsn4FUZyr_kmxyJKrqS2pBneUJ7r3b5ZbX9hH9E5Su7XKEwRTxHWUuWKtSya5Rn-K6/s1600/IMG_2101.jpeg"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4U50x66AhbT2WCIMmY4rK6bCW8cRX2SYddS8h57v1z0-J9zxDF3qIowyrEUG_alARvFwsn4FUZyr_kmxyJKrqS2pBneUJ7r3b5ZbX9hH9E5Su7XKEwRTxHWUuWKtSya5Rn-K6/s320/IMG_2101.jpeg" /></a></div>
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<h2>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Are multiple personalities real?</span></h2>
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<h2>
Jeanette Bartha, USA: </h2>
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<i> When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters), and what do you think caused them? </i><br />
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I started to exhibit alters about 3-4 weeks after beginning treatment with an MPD expert. What caused them was having 100% insurance coverage, being sequestered on the ward, not seeing friends or family, a poor diet, no exercise, high doses of narcotics and a delusional doctor. <br />
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<i> I’ve heard people with “MPD/DID” say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts? </i><br />
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No blackouts unless you count being given too many narcotics.<br />
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<i> Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
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They never knew about the details of my treatment. <br />
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<i> Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting? </i><br />
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No, I wouldn't say I was acting. I was living up to his expectations and believed the alters were real - after a while and many truth serum interviews. I was assured by the doctor that I was not acting, lying, or mis-remembering. <br />
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<i><br /> If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be?</i> <br />
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Run! You're much worse than you were at admission. Get out of here. <br />
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<i> What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
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It was an ah-ha moment. I had been jogging and my head cleared. <br />
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<i> Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
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Only in the minds of some psychiatrists and film-makers. <br />
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Roma Hart, Canada: </h2>
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<i> When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters), and what do you think caused them? </i><br />
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October 1986 at the end of my first appointment with Dr. Colin Ross. I had gone to a university student guidance counsellor Lynn Ryan to get a form fill out for an extension to my unemployment insurance at the suggestion of my friend, but the form required a doctor and this guidance counsellor, who was also a student of Dr.Colin Ross, was sure that he would fill out the form for me. Although the unemployment was based upon a foot injury it just seemed easier to get an extension based on stress, I was certainly under stress, and when the student counsellor asked me what I did when I was under stress and I answered “I just switch to auto pilot” she immediately diagnosed that as another personality and became excited at the possibility of working with her idol and professor Colin Ross who held claim to being the only MPD expert in Western Canada at that time. I just needed the form filled out, I didn’t believe in multiple personality disorder and had read in a Psychology Today magazine several years earlier that it was junk science, no such thing existed. Nevertheless there Lynn and I were a few days later, in Ross’ office in the St. Boniface Hospital psych. building. At the end of the first appointment Ross asked me if he could speak to one of my personalities and I felt pressured to produce one for him. The student counsellor was sitting right beside me and I knew that I had a tendency to cry very easily when I has PMS, and that when I had PMS I hated being touched because my skin felt like it was on fire, an estrogen overload kind of effect. Well I just happened to have pretty bad PMS that day so I told the counsellor to touch me and I would switch to another personality. She did, worse than just a touch she started rubbing my back and I could not help myself from cringing and crying to get the hell away from her because she wouldn’t stop rubbing my back. Dr.Colin Ross was very pleased indeed for the apparent personality switch and I just nodded yes to every question he asked, I just wanted to get out of his office as soon as possible. I was terrified of going to a psychiatrist’s office and terrified of drugs but the student counsellor had assured me before going to that appointment that MPD was the only diagnosis that never required hospitalization and never required drugs, so I believed that if I were to get out of Ross’ office then I needed that diagnosis and no other. Furthermore, I needed that damn form filled out because I needed the money, I had no intention of ever coming back for another appointment. Well, Ross filled out the form and shook my hand welcoming me to MPD therapy at the end of that first appointment. <br />
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<i> How many alters did you have? </i><br />
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I had 48 alter personalities, Ross said I had more but I was too bored to look for more and the MPD therapy was making me very sick. <br />
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<i> I’ve heard people with “MPD/DID” say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts? </i><br />
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My so-called blackouts were nothing more than ordinary moments of distraction and day dreaming, for example missing my stop on the bus because I was looking out the window thinking about something. My periods of memory loss were nothing more than normal forgetting because something happened a long time ago. However, all supposed blackouts and supposed memory loss were rewarded by Ross and the other MPD support group members, it supported the cult like environment of the believers in MPD. <br />
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<i> Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
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Not my family, but I had one friend who wanted to be included in my MPD treatment program and seemed to love the drama. <br />
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<i> Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting? </i><br />
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In the very beginning I felt like an actor, but by the second appointment I was completely sucked into the game. By the third appointment Ross had me convinced I was not only sexually abused by my whole family throughout my entire childhood but was also part of a murderous satanic cult. By the fourth visit he had me believe that I had an alien baby. The following month I attempted suicide. The following month, after standing in the hallway by the nurses station in the St. Boniface Hospital psych. building and yelling that “ it was all a lie and that nothing was true”, Dr. Colin Ross had me committed, forcibly injected with high levels of drugs, put in a seclusion room , and had one of his nurses sit beside me on the floor saying to me over and over again that it was all true. Well I never did that again, learned my lesson. <br />
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<i> If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be? </i><br />
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At the first step toward the St. Boniface Hospital I would have screamed at myself to stop and run in the opposite direction as fast and as far as I could. When I had decided to just go to Ross’ office and pretend I had MPD to get the form filled out I thought that nothing could go wrong, I wasn’t crazy, all I had to do was sit there and talk to him for an hour, no harm could ever come from that, in a few weeks I could just go back to work. Boy was I wrong! What would I say to myself back then? Lots could go wrong! So much could go very wrong very quickly, oh my goodness turn around and never go in there and never ever speak to or listen to Dr. Colin Ross or his whacko student ever again!! <br />
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<i> What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
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I would watch the television show Sesame Street as a way to be kind to my child personality. There was one episode where Kermit the Frog and Grover were demonstrating emotions. Kermit would say this is what sad looks like, this is what angry looks like, this is what happy looks like, and then Grover would demonstrate what that feeling made him look like. Well, Hell! It was a light bulb moment for me. I remembered that before I met Ross I never had to switch personalities when I felt different emotions. Grover didn’t have to say he was a different name or a different person just because he was feeling a different emotion, he was still Grover all the time! That’s what I was like before MPD therapy! Geeeez! I was sick of MPD therapy and I was so sick of Ross not listening to me and always telling me to switch personalities. Then I remembered something I had learned as a student when I was in the university Faculty of Education, it was about “unlearning”. So I decided that if I had learned how to be MPD then I could unlearn it too. So that’s what I did, I unlearned it by stopping it. <br />
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<i> Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
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They’re only real if you believe in them. But they’re caused by bad therapy and bad therapists using junk science for personal investments of one kind or another. If you can manage to get away from those cult like influences and dust off your critical thinking skills then you’ll see that MPD is not a real thing and the personalities are not real thing either. <br />
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">Sonja Karels, Netherlands: </span><br />
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<i> When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters), and what do you think caused them? </i><br />
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My GP started to treat me [for a nervous breakdown], but after a while he referred me to a Christian psychologist. A young man, just from school and we just couldn't stand each other. He was trying to put all the blame on my parents and I insisted I needed to get my own life in order, without blaming others. Back then he already believed my father did abuse me. (I found that out during an intake in a Christian center for abused women). We had a fight on the phone and I left. <br />
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Years later, I was married, with 2 small children I became depressed and anxious again, I also suffered from anorexia nervosa again... and I went to a conference to 'receive' healing from God. I really wanted to get better, to serve God better. And then I saw this psychologist and I thought I had to apologize to him, because otherwise God could not bless me (I don't believe that anymore, but back then I was theologically challenged and superstitious). <br />
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I apologized and he accepted my apologies and followed me everyday during that conference. After every meeting he wanted to pray with me, to ask God what was wrong with me. I felt cared for and loved and special. It was a very special treatment. And then on the 5th day I heard myself talk with a small childish voice and tell him that daddy did something when I was 3 months. <br />
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He should have said, “No, you can not possibly remember that”, but he was happy, finally the truth showed up. I was confused. Is that really true. He said, “Did you make it up?” No, it just happened I had no control. <br />
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He said, “We prayed, and God does not give stones when you ask for bread.” So I felt I had to believe it. <br />
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He told me he could help me, and I started therapy with him. Twice a week, 3 hours per session; I had to pay for it myself. After a few weeks I couldn't remember anything that happened in therapy. We taped the sessions and I had to listen to them during the week and write them down, word by word. DID was never mentioned; I found out months later what my diagnosis was. I was unaware of alters and lost a lot of time. <br />
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<i> How many alters did you have? </i><br />
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At first 25, but they kept coming. The 25 remained, they were the strongest. But later we 'discovered' circles within circles and there would be 7x7 circles of witches behind every strong alter and a lot of others. The end count was more than 1000. But 42-45 with names. <br />
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<i> I’ve heard people with “MPD/DID” say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts? </i><br />
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Yes, a lot. Sometimes even for weeks and once 3 months. But most of the time it was just a few minutes or an hour. One cause is medication. I was heavily medicated. The other is - I think - stress and preoccupation with the false memories, like daydreaming about bad stuff. Sometimes I couldn't remember being to the therapist. I would 'wake' up in my car not knowing if I'd been to therapy. <br />
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The 3 months, I'm not sure I really lost 3 months. It felt like that, is it summer already? Yesterday it was February. I have no explanation for that. <br />
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<i><br /> Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
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Yes, they did. My husband would recognize the alters and speak with them. Some friends did too. My children could call forward the 'fun' alters and embarrass me. I remember rolling over the floor in church with a bunch of children. Something I would never do. But they called a boy alter. I have been told I looked different, spoke differently, wore different clothes. <br />
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<i> Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting? </i><br />
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No, I wasn't acting. I wish I was, because then I could have stopped doing it. I've been confused by all of this for 9 years. Sometimes it did feel like acting, especially in therapy. Like I was a puppet on a string, acting, but involuntary. <br />
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<i> If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be? </i><br />
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It is not true, you are not abused. Stop believing that nonsense. Make a list, make a timeline. (And if I just could say one word, it would be TIMELINE). <br />
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<i> What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
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In 2002 I was fed up with all the medication and I decided to taper off. The psychiatrist warned me against it, but I wanted to have a clear head. It took me one year. I had help from an online group. It was a long and slow process, but after 9 months I felt better. During that time I didn't have therapy and I broke off all contact with other 'survivors'. Suddenly I realized I didn't lose time, I didn't hear alters talking, something had changed. I told my husband to call me by my real name and nothing else. Doesn't matter if he thought he saw an alter, just my real name. It was a miracle and I loved it. But then I got depressed again and I remembered reading about integration that you need to get help to live as an integrated person. So I found another therapist. During the intake, 15 minutes in, he had a very angry alter talking and that brought me back in the multiple world. <br />
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I started doubting again, couldn't sleep, refused to take sleeping pills. Then I decided to make a list. A timeline. Stuff I knew that happened. First time to school at age 4; Little brother at age 5; Graduation at age 18. And another list with the new found memories. First baby at age 13; first rape at 3 months, etc. And full term twins born at age 18. <br />
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And then it hit me... graduation and full-term twins? During that year I became a Christian and made a lot of new friends, we would sport together, go to the beach together, have fun. We were also serious together. We did Bible study and talked a lot. Those people were between the ages 15-25. And no one saw my pregnancy? So that memory couldn't be true, but that was one of the most painful memories. I had more pain than delivering my 2 real children (without drugs). And if that wasn't true, how could the rest be true? And once I realized everything was false, I stopped believing I had multiple personalities. They told the stories, the stories weren't true, so they weren't true either. It was one big deceiving fictional mess. <br />
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<i> Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
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No! I've met too many people like myself. They claim to be multiple, they believe they are multiple, but when they are honest they all say they have doubts. I believe it is learned behavior. You act different and the therapist asks what your name is. You learn quickly to just give a name. And then you have an alter. This sounds like making up a name, but it doesn't work that way. At least not with me. When the therapist asked a name, some name popped up in my head and that had to be it. <br />
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">Kim (a pseudonym), USA: </span><br />
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<i> When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters), and what do you think caused them? </i><br />
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I feel like I started to dissociate after I left a cult that I was in. I just would stare off into the distance for long points of time, and I felt like I didn't know who I was. This is actually a common phenomenon in cults and is caused by something called pseudo-identities. Where the cult will separate your core identity from the person you are supposed to be in the cult. It's how cults are able to make people do things they normally wouldn't do. (Example, the Manson crew killing 7 people, or Bob Jones cult drinking laced Kool Aid). I guess that's how dissociation started. When it got really bad, I entered a top-notch dissociative unit in the US. I went there, because I was dissociating so much. They are the ones who created the alters. I think what caused them was the same thing that caused the first one, it was like brainwashing. They convinced me and I didn't easily believe it, that it was true. I told them multiple times, repeating it over and over again "Dissociative Identity Disorder does not exist and I do not have it". But you have to understand that I was one mind, one measly patient, against dozens of professionals who claimed otherwise. And I was stuck on that unit for 5 weeks. Day in and day out I was fed the same stuff. And it wasn't just the top-notch psychiatrists, the residents, the nurses, the therapists and socials workers and art therapists and music therapists telling me this was a real disorder, there were thirty patients around me all playing the game and so at some point I broke down and in order to keep my sanity we took my denial and gave it its own alter. I called it the denial alter, the one who never believed, it lived in order for me to escape this horrible abuse whenever I needed to. And when I did that, there was no escaping, anytime I thought "this just isn't true". I would follow it up with "says the denial alter". I felt like that denial alter was my one and only identity, and when I put it aside like that I opened my mind up to be fractured. <br />
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<i> How many alters did you have? </i><br />
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16 <br />
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I’ve heard people with “MPD/DID” say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts?<br />
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I did and I didn't. I'm not sure that I can explain this well. I was probably suffering from PTSD, from the cult and from the dissociative unit, and from all the horrible memories bombarding my head constantly and the fact that I had been in so many psychiatric wards, had been put in so many seclusion rooms, tied to so many beds, given so many chemical restraints, etc. I dissociated a lot. My memory was like Swiss cheese constantly. My memory may have also had issues, because of all the medications they were pumping into my system. I never, not ever lost "days at a time". They were aware that I didn't. I didn't go to bed and wake up in the grocery store. There were times I would get on the highway and come to 4 miles down the road, having missed my exit. There have always been questions about whether I have temporal lobe seizures, but EEGs won't confirm them. I stay on anti-seizure medications and I don't have them. So we think it's pretty clear what's happening. But these instances were always used against me to prove that I did in fact have DID. <br />
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<i> Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
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My friends and family really didn't know that I had DID. I was pretty embarrassed about the diagnosis, so I kept it to myself. <br />
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<i> Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting?</i> <br />
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This is tough for me to answer now looking back. In many ways they would ask me to play the part. I would start to dissociate per usual which often led to them asking questions like "who am I talking to"? It was hard because I was sitting there trying not to dissociate and at the same time trying to delay the questionings being fired at me to which I had no answer to give them. Which at the time I didn't know it, but by delaying my answering, it made it worse. By delaying my answering I would be fired at more, with more questioning "Who are you?" "Can you tell me your name?" "Why are you here?" "Were you sent to help Kim?" <br />
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It sounds like something out of a cheesy horror film about aliens. It becomes terrifying to hear those lines of questioning. I would never give my therapist(s) names of my alters. I never felt like I was being honest if I did that. If what they said was true then they would have to hand me the names themselves from another alter they claimed existed, that told them, because I wasn't making them up. <br />
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Like I said previously I felt that I had set my own identity aside when I made the denial alter up. I think it's possible to fracture your mind, just not have multiple personalities. Not entire personalities. I think brainwashing can do this. I think hypnosis can do this. It's a total lack of identity and will create the worst insanity imaginable, you are at the mercy of your doctors and therapists and they keep feeding you lies. <br />
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<i> If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be? </i><br />
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Doctors aren't always right. Even doctors with prestige. <br />
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<i> What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
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I found it as truth for myself. I had to look inside myself and really understand that none of this could be true and then stop listening to doctors. I came to realize that I knew myself better than they did, even if they claimed otherwise. <br />
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<i> Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
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No <br />
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Grace (a pseudonym), Australia</h2>
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<i>When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters) and what do you think caused them?</i><br />
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I never displayed or demonstrated any sort of alternate personalities until I saw my psychologist and even then, it took me a month or so before I was convinced enough to play any sort of role (or let my inner child be revealed). Growing up in an over-protecting household I was emotionally underdeveloped compared to my peers and I think this was an integral contributing factor in allowing myself to become another person in front of my psychologist. The cause of my alters is simply due to the psychologist's method of treatment and her ability to encourage and persuade me to take on their roles.<br />
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<i>How many alters did you have?</i><br />
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I was often shocked at my psychologist's interpretation of this. She explained my alters like a family tree with alters having numerous roles. I know for certain that I sketched and recorded over four hundred different aged personalities however my psychologist seemed to believe that some of them were the same alter at different stages of entrapment in the repressed memories and that I had produced more alters through therapy due to my resistance to it. <br />
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<i>I've heard people with MPD/DID say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts?</i><br />
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I never experienced a "blackout" before therapy and simply could not recall important dates from my childhood. My psychologist explained this as being caused by my personalities living life without me knowing and this is why I could not recall important information about my infancy and childhood (such as my fourth birthday party etc); my alters had obviously lived the experience and the memories that were made during that time they controlled my body were individually kept by them. I taught myself how to "blackout" during therapy. I have always had a tendency to be hypnotised very quickly, even during some children's movies as I was growing up. During therapy I did not want to believe in the abuse I was "remembering" and desperately wanted to escape from accepting what was happening to me. Each week I would train myself to not be able to feel my body, I would take pins and thumbtacks in my pockets and hurt myself causing a dizziness to come over my whole body and slowly I would be able to make myself become emotionless and unable to feel my body. During my time in therapy I taught myself to hyperventilate silently and hold my breath for longer periods of time until the dizziness would take complete control of my body. Since I have stopped therapy I cannot do these things, I am incapable of shutting out physical pain and I am completely aware of everything around me. I never had any memory loss even in my times of "zoning out". I was aware at the time of everything in the room, and all that my psychologist was suggesting or encouraging me to participate in, I trained my body to be in a state of numbness during my sessions and also at home when I used self-harm to achieve the same feeling in order to block out the intensity of the emotional pain.<br />
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<i>Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you?</i><br />
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I was encouraged to cut off all communication with the real world, including any social networks that were not sympathetic to my psychologist's beliefs. At the suggestion of my psychologist I was isolated with only four people that held the same beliefs as my psychologist who encouraged them to find my personalities and build relationships with my alters. They believed whole-heartedly in my different personalities. I would change the types of clothes I wore depending on my mood swings (such as wearing all black and looking quite the 'gothic' type during the so-called Satanic holidays/seasons and wearing dainty white/floral outfits for church-type events). After being convinced that I had personalities I allowed myself to often dress like a child, or teen depending on what personality my psychologist wanted to deal with that week. My rage and aggravation towards the therapy, the memories and abusers was often in direct conflict of my normal quiet/controlled/generous nature and this was also a contributing factor in the people around me believing that I had different personalities. Each horrific memory would bring a variety of emotions that I was incapable of facing and dealing with and I would become severely depressed which was interpreted as a different alter, or I would find myself enraged which was interpreted as a different alter, or I would make myself become numb and void of feeling anything...and yes, it was interpreted as a different personality. I think they honestly believed me because I was nothing like the teenager they had known previously, and my moods and emotions were heightened to the point of being incontrollable.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like you were acting?</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I would say that I allowed myself to feel such horrific emotions on an unlimited level that it was easy to adapt my personality to deal with the trauma I was enforced to accept. I became so enraged at my parents that it was easy to allow myself to play the role of the abused child, I became so depressed and desiring death that it was easy to play the role of the child that was loyal to Satan. Yes, I was acting however I feel that the exasperation of the emotions that I was forced to experience provided a strong platform for me to be able to express myself, particularly with a sympathetic therapist. If I allowed myself to play the role of the abused child during therapy my psychologist would hold me tenderly and caress my head and shoulders. If I did not play the role that was required, I received hostility and resentment. This definitely helped me to act the role that was required of me. Yes, it always felt like I was acting, and I consistently stated that I was acting a role to my therapist; this was always interpreted as denial which my therapist had certain ways in dealing with this (financially, it was beneficial to play the role as quickly as possible and my therapist's time management issues also had a deep effect). <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be?</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I honestly would not have listened. There were many educated people around me at that time attempting to open my eyes to what was happening to me. Close family members and friends had tried to explain how false memories could be implanted by incompetent therapists, and that I had no basis or evidence for any of the things that I was being convinced of, yet I remained loyal to my psychologist. I was in such a vulnerable state of mind at that time and my psychologist offered me a future where I was valued and possessed a type of rare gift that no other human around me could compare to. Having Dissociative Identity Disorder gave me a sense of privilege that I had never had before, and I wore that status like a badge of honour. Often during the sessions I would be riddled with guilt at knowing that I was going along with the whole process and that all of it was false, but also knowing that I could not stop or cease to play along with all of the roles as the financial investment had been so incredibly high and the emotional impact I had created in cutting off my family was so traumatic that going back was not even an option. Nothing I could have said to myself back then would have changed the intensity of the situation.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities?</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
It has taken almost four years to re-train myself to stop waiting for a personality to suddenly be revealed. Once the relationship with my psychologist deteriorated, I started to realise that I did not have to act or play a role for anyone, including those people who continued to believe that I had DID. Fear kept me believing that I had these personalities: my therapist was persistent in reassuring me that I would need to have all of my personalities integrated to be free, to be normal, to live as a functional human being. For years I was terrified that there might have been some deeply traumatised child alters trapped in memories and that I would always be a dysfunctional woman with the possibility of an alter suddenly creating chaos at any random moment if these alters decided to appear. Self-analysis of my own behaviours and thoughts was the catalyst in helping me find that certainty that I had never had any personalities. I became friends with a new social circle of educated people who could explain in detail the processes that I had become entrapped in with my therapist and since then, I have no fear. I never genuinely believed I had personalities nor did I suddenly stop believing. The fear that I could be mentally unwell and that there was a possibility that my psychologist was correct kept me from simply admitting the truth.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Are multiple personalities real?</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I have witnessed other women and men who are diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder and observed the "switching" of their personalities. I have also talked to their different personalities and there is no evidence that they are experiencing anything different from what I have personally experienced. Knowing how easy it is to find the right evidence and convince someone that they do have alters I would find it impossible to believe that it is real. As a deeply creative person, I sketched and scribbled in different handwriting on purpose, changed my appearance and interests on purpose and sketched my different alleged personalities with the sole purpose of trying to convince myself that what my psychologist was encouraging was real. It was never real, not for a moment. I do not believe multiple personalities are real, particularly after spending five years enacting them out and supporting their fake identities with creative approaches. The men and women I have seen with this type of disorder generally have been exposed to the same type of therapy with similar social networks who are sympathetic to the belief that multiple personalities are real. I have never seen any evidence that a person can have one identity that does not know the other identities within their being and have experienced this firsthand. During my five years of therapy I was constantly aware of myself, my feelings, values and beliefs as well as my surroundings and could never realistically agree with having personalities that I had no knowledge of, take control of my body and engage in activities that I could not recall later. This entire ideology was suggested to me by my therapist and supported with stories and theory that my therapist shared in weekly sessions to perpetuate the belief that this is indeed scientifically possible.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Poppy (a pseudonym), UK: </span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>When did you start to exhibit alternate personalities(alters), and what do you think caused them?</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I went to my GP, who sent me to a private therapist, as the NHS wait would have been six months. I had no idea the therapist specialised in dissociation and MPD. This was 1992. When I first started seeing this therapist, I told her my childhood was fine. My mistake was to say I couldn’t remember under five years of age. The therapist became convinced I had been abused under five years of age, that’s why I couldn’t remember it. This is when I was handed “The Courage to Heal”, which states you don’t need to remember your abuse - if you have a feeling you were abused you were. This is when I was told I was MPD and I started to develop the idea of alters, with the use of the book and confirmation from the therapist. I developed alters. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i><br />How many alters did you have? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought I had three, one girl, one boy and one who didn’t know whether they were a boy or a girl.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i><br />I have heard people with MPD/DID say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the blackouts? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
No, I didn’t, I just had normal lapses like we all do like, “Where are my keys?”, etc, and this was put down to dissociation. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Did friends or family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
No, I didn’t tell anyone outside the therapy world I was in. I wish I had told people what was going on in therapy. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Not then, but when I look back, I can remember being in a group therapy session, and the therapist pointed out, “Look at Poppy, she is dissociating, she can’t hear me.” I could - I was just doing what she wanted me to do, I could hear her. It wasn’t like acting - it didn’t affect me in the sense of how I behaved. I only had a picture inside of these 3 children. I had to keep them happy. They were all under 5 years of age (when abuse was supposed to have happened). I had a clear picture of them. When I came out of my false memories, they just disappeared. I was very sad - it was like losing part of me. I was never alone while they were there. <br />
<br />
I just look at it now as though we all have these different parts of us. They aren’t alters -nothing like that - just different moods, even. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>If you could say one thing to yourself at the time, what would it be? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Tell people what was going on in the therapy and hopefully they would have made me see sense and get out. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I was in therapy for 15 years, and had been out of therapy for about 10. I had started to have doubts about what I had been told had happened to me in my childhood. I couldn’t remember anything wrong in my childhood before therapy, but I came out believing all this horrible stuff had happened. I now believe I was brainwashed to think I had been abused. I believe nothing happened at all. My husband became ill and I just started to think more about what I had been told, and I researched false memories. The more I did, the more I realised I had been given false memories. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
No, I believe they aren’t, but rather all in the minds of recovered memory therapists. Once I realised, I had false memories they went overnight. I had none of this before I entered therapy. I didn’t even know what abuse was.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Roberta (a pseudonym), Canada: </span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>When did you start exhibiting alternate personalities (alters), and what do you think caused them? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought I had DID because it sounded like me, lots of conflicting opinions, shitty memory, history of childhood trauma, it seemed to explain a lot of things about me. My first contact with the concept of DID and multiple personalities was by way of a YouTube video of someone claiming to have them. Once I had that in my mind, I began to see my various mood changes as different alters. In reality, I had just experienced a very real traumatic event that left me very depressed and I was searching for answers. I very much believe that if I had never seen or heard of DID I wouldn’t have experienced what I did. I felt very lost and alone at the time. I sought out a DID “specialist” therapist who confirmed the diagnosis in me. That’s when it started feeling very “real” to me. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i> How many alters did you have? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I think I had 5, but my therapist always insisted I had more. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>I’ve heard people with “MPD/DID” say they have blackouts or periods of memory loss when being different alters. Did you? If so, can you explain the cause of the blackouts? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Whenever I was hypnotized by the therapist, I had partial amnesia for whatever happened while she was doing it. I was also pretty messed up after the sessions, I always had to sleep a lot after and I would be dizzy or sick for a couple days. I definitely think most of the “blackout” periods were hypnosis-based. I think I also started to rationalize normal forgetfulness and distraction as switching or “time loss”. I never experienced anything like a full blackout or a week of missing time or anything like that. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I personally think most of those accounts are exaggerated, but I can only speak for myself. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Did your friends and family believe you had different personalities? If so, why do you think they believed you? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Yes and no. My friends all believed me and most of the family members I told did too. I think some of them had doubts, but if they did they didn’t bring them up. I think they believed me because the diagnosis had come from a psychologist and I was “switching” in front of them. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i> Would you say you were acting? Did it feel like acting? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
It never felt like acting while it was happening, but I definitely had weird feelings about it all. Everytime I experienced a “switch” or something like that, there’d always be a part of me thinking “What are you doing? Are you faking this?” I always rationalized that as “Why would someone fake this?” <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i> If you could say one thing to yourself at that time, what would it be?</i> <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I’m not sure. I was very deep in it, and I believed it was all real. I’m not sure anything anybody said to me would have changed my mind. I definitely had to come to the conclusion myself. If anything, I would tell myself to see a psychiatrist before seeking private therapy. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i> What made you stop believing you had multiple personalities? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I noticed I wasn’t getting better in therapy, I was getting worse. I had a lot of weird feelings about the hypnosis and my worsening symptoms. I started researching the ISSTD (the professional organization my therapist belonged to) and I found all the controversy, the stories of institutional medical abuse in the name of DID and I realized I’d gotten myself wrapped up in a huge hoax. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<i> Are multiple personalities real? </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Yes- but only if you believe in them. Ask anybody in the depth of their DID therapy and they will tell you what they are experiencing is real. It’s clearly a very real epiphenomena of hypnosis based DID/ego state therapy. However, once you snap out of it and you stop believing, they go away. They are real in the way that ghost hunters will recount their tales of the paranormal— you can’t disprove that someone didn’t see or hear what they did while under a suggestible state. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
However if you asked me if they are real in regards to “do people naturally exhibit multiple personality” I would say no. <br />
<br />
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============================ <br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">A note from the blogger, Orphia Nay: </span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Why didn’t I include answers from anyone who currently believes multiple personalities are real? <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
It would be promoting a sense of <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/16/anti-vaccination-activists-should-not-be-given-a-say-in-the-media">false balance</a> by including unskeptical answers. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Good science is not divided on the issue. <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allen-frances/multiple-personality-is-i_b_4695915.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allen-frances/multiple-personality-is-i_b_4695915.html</a><br />
<br />
These people have seen both sides of the argument to the fullest extent. <br />
<br />
They’ve lived and breathed multiple personalities and understood the reasons for and against alters to the depth of their beings, rationally concluding they are not real. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
An earlier version of this blog post was first published on the former Dysgenics.com <br />
<br />
Updated on 30 March 2019 by including a recent interview. <br />
<br />
Updated on 13 July 2020 to add Roberta’s answers.orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-71211329620169284142019-08-27T21:33:00.001+10:002019-08-27T21:33:18.423+10:00"Multiple Personalities" or Multiple ThoughtsTherapist-induced childhood memories “causing” multiple personalities or dissociative disorders, the McMartin preschool trial, the conviction of The San Antonio Four…<br />
<br />
The Satanic Panic is an extreme example of how humans are driven by fears.<br />
We are irrationally anxious about very unlikely dangers, meanwhile most of us do things daily that increase risks of preventable causes of death.<br />
<br />
The truths about these mass hysteria events and imaginary "Satanic ritual child abuse" crimes can be shared even only as a warning, however repeating the story makes most people actually more likely to think there's some truth in these superstitious and outlandish horror stories.<br />
<br />
Many good quality psychological and economic <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow?wprov=sfti1" target="_blank">studies</a> have been published on how suddenly seeing something extraordinary causes an avalanche of shock, outrage, and concurrent beliefs in its likelihood - The “<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic" target="_blank">Availability Cascade</a>” <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases" target="_blank">cognitive bias.</a><br />
<br />
(Think about how white supremacism is spreading partly because all kinds of people keep viewing and sharing ideas in articles that earn those extremists ad revenue.)<br />
<br />
Movies, TV, and novels also spread irrational beliefs and fears by popularising fictional stories in their dubious aims to make good content out of bad Logic.<br />
<br />
Reality can seem nebulous. Thinking is hard, fear is effortless.<br />
<br />
Lions are waiting outside the campsite even if, for example, our tribe is in Utah (for a few denominations, Satanic evil is “real”).<br />
<br />
The world is our tribe.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilECYvk8vxpmV8_kP9-LKiiAo01OxvjfEI1NVSqVK2ZJaFEBnOj0gizIF1LQZBqtix0-XXHEfnCWeP2mIgOqDFooOOmSw4q9gAwJaCr_hoT6IMfT_NzHcXHoi6sIhZHji8nGyM/s1600/2F777732-C673-4E47-96D5-D10525C7530C.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="797" data-original-width="1600" height="159" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilECYvk8vxpmV8_kP9-LKiiAo01OxvjfEI1NVSqVK2ZJaFEBnOj0gizIF1LQZBqtix0-XXHEfnCWeP2mIgOqDFooOOmSw4q9gAwJaCr_hoT6IMfT_NzHcXHoi6sIhZHji8nGyM/s320/2F777732-C673-4E47-96D5-D10525C7530C.jpeg" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<br />
We can appeal to people's fear of being ostracised by our world tribe if we simplify or parody the illogic in batcraptastic fears.<br />
<br />
We bond through humour and simplistic dualism, and self-evident human evolutionary truths of biological and physical evidence, not just bonding out of fear of the dark outside our minority's campsite.<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-19212679878374377812012-10-26T17:55:00.001+11:002012-10-26T18:15:50.952+11:00"9/11 Truth" Contradictions<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">"9/11 Truthers" would like us to believe a multitude of contradictory claims from their movement.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">This is an edited compilation of examples of these contradictions put forward by the good folk at the James Randi Educational Foundation Forum's <a href="http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64" target="_blank">9/11 Conspiracy Theories sub-forum</a>, in a thread entitled "<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=62313" target="_blank">9/11 Conspiracy Contradictions and Inconsistencies</a>":</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;">NORAD stood down; Flight 93 was shot down.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Damning evidence of there being charges inside
the towers is the numerous reports of explosions; Thermite (a non-explosive)
reactions were used to weaken the steel beams.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">The towers fell neatly within their own
footprints, indicating controlled demolition; Heavy steel columns from the
towers landed as far away as 600 feet, indicating controlled demolition.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">9/11 enabled the US to invade Afghanistan so
they could build a pipeline; Al Qaeda and the Taliban are puppets of the
CIA/ISI (why the need to invade?).</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">The fact of controlled demolition is obvious
from watching videos; The collapse was designed to not look like controlled
demolition.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">The announcement to tenants of WTC 2 that it
was safe to remain in or go back to their offices was intended to maximize
casualties; The fact that the first building was hit before 9:00 AM was
intended to minimize casualties.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Firefighters and police officers were given a
gag order not to talk about what they experienced in the towers on 9-11; Many
firefighters and police officers have conducted interviews about what they went
through.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Flight attendant Betty Ong should not be
believed because she sounded too calm in her telephone call; Flight attendant
Madeline Sweeney should not be believed because she did not sound calm enough
in her telephone call.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Firefighters should be believed when they say
that they heard explosions in the twin towers; Firefighters should not be
believed when they say that they saw massive damage and fires on multiple
floors in WTC7.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">It wouldn't be difficult for the government to
keep a massive conspiracy like this completely secret; Conspiracy theorists
have discovered the truth.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The conspirators were evil geniuses and faked
the phone calls; The conspirators faked phone calls that were impossible at the
time.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The Flight Data Recorders (FDRs) from the WTC
were never found, the FBI made them disappear; The FDRs from the Pentagon and
Shanksville, were found, the FBI planted them.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The east penthouse of WTC7 collapsed 8 seconds
before the rest of the building, and this is a sign of controlled demolition;
All of the supports failed at the same time, and this is a sign of controlled
demolition.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The Pentagon FDR indicated a flyover; The
Pentagon FDR was faked.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;">Steven Jones - credible when talking about
thermite; Not credible, when talking about Pentagon (he believes a plane hit
it).</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Bush - credible when talking about New World
Order stuff; Not credible when talking about 9/11.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Osama Bin Laden - credible when denying the
attacks; Not credible when claiming responsibility of the attacks.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Eyewitness – credible when saying they saw no
plane parts; Not credible when they say they saw a plane hit the Pentagon.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;">Flight 11 being caught on film is suspicious;
Flight 77 not being caught on film is suspicious.</span><br />
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;">The evidence was whisked away before anyone
could perform any investigation; </span><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Steven Jones has taken samples which
show evidence of nanothermite.</span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The FDNY predicting 7's collapse is suspicious;
The FDNY was not in on it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The mainstream media (MSM) were in on it (e.g.
the BBC reporting the WTC 7 collapse 20 minutes early and "blowing the
script”); The MSM reported some of the hijackers were still alive after 9/11
(the BBC again).<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;">Bin Laden worked for the CIA; The CIA used a
“fake” Bin Laden in the video.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Everybody’s asleep; Everybody’s waking up.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">The debunkers disrespect the victims’
families, but the families who said they spoke to their loved ones on the
planes are too stupid to recognise faked voices.</span> <br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">The government-funded investigations were
corrupt; We need a new government-funded investigation.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Cheney ordered that the Pentagon plane not be
shot down; There was no Pentagon plane.</span><br />
<br />
Hani <span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Hanjour couldn’t have made the difficult
manoeuvres in the Pentagon plane; There was no Pentagon plane.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Silverstein told an FDNY official to “pull
it”; Silverstein never spoke to an FDNY official.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">A firefighter said WTC 7’s going to
"blow" so he had advance knowledge of the inside job; The
firefighters weren’t part of the inside job.</span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">WTC 7 must have been a controlled demolition because it wasn't hit by a plane; WTC1 & WTC2 were hit by planes and were controlled demolitions.</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br />
<br />
<span style="background: #F6F6F6;">Thermite/thermate/nanotherm*te was used in
order to disguise the demolitions by avoiding the sound of explosives; People
heard explosives.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br />
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->===
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The last words go to Poetry Hound, who contributed the most
examples of contradictions:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Who
was behind 9/11? It was the Bush Administration! No wait! It was a rogue group
of government officials! No wait! It was the NWO! No wait! It was the Jews! No
wait! It was Halliburton and other defence contractors! No wait! It was the
Vatican! No wait! It was the Illuminati! Aw, hell, it was all of ‘em!</span></span><br />
<div>
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">===</span></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #f6f6f6;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></div>
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orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-87455325825728451002011-12-31T13:07:00.000+11:002011-12-31T14:08:40.947+11:00Earth is not crossing the galactic plane in 2012 and the sky is not falling<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:donotoptimizeforbrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <h1><span style="font-size:85%;"><span style="font-family:Arial;">Earth is not crossing the galactic plane in 2012 and the sky is not falling</span></span></h1> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">For over two years I debated New Agers about the 2012 myths.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The main believer was a charming guy by the name of Arrgy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I, and some other skeptics tried to dispel his fears about 2012, and in return we were insulted and called names.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">It was a fascinating discussion, at least on the part of the rationalists who provided data and evidence to back their claims.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It was also an interesting study in how New Agers and doom merchants ignore facts that don’t fit in with their beliefs.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">In this post, I thought I’d share two interesting exchanges with astronomers that arose due to of my involvement in that thread.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">(Here’s the full, 59 page thread for anyone who’s interested:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"><a href="http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79828">http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79828</a>)</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">Arrgy believes, even after being repeatedly proved wrong, that:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">Earth will cross the galactic plane on December 21, 2012;</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">Potentially Hazardous Asteroids (PHAs) are increasing as we approach the Galactic Plane, endangering Earth.</span></li></ul> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b><span style="font-family:Arial;">We are not crossing the Galactic Plane in 2012 and PHAs are not increasing due to said crossing.</span></b></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">Most scientists and astronomers agree with the following paper that we last crossed the Galactic Plane around 3 million years ago, and we will not cross it again for about 30 million years.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"><a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v316/n6030/abs/316706a0.html">http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v316/n6030/abs/316706a0.html</a></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">In March 2011 I asked a friend working as an astronomer in China about that paper. Here's what he said:<br /><br /><em style="font-style: italic;"></em></span><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:donotoptimizeforbrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><em></em></span></p><blockquote><span style="font-size:85%;"><em><span style=" font-style: normal;font-family:Arial;" >Basically the Sun orbits the Galactic centre along with the rest of the disk stars, but they all move up and down in a oscillating fashion. At the moment the Sun is a little above the nominal plane of the disk and heading upwards. The idea behind this woo is that the nominal plane of the disk is a dense collection of stars and debris that greatly increases the chance of collision as we pass through it.</span></em><i><span style="font-family:Arial;"><br /><br /></span></i><em><span style=" font-style: normal;font-family:Arial;" >In reality the plane is only defined by the relative density of stars, and the nominal plane is the turnover point in this density gradient. The scale height of the Galactic disk is about 100 parsecs for the youngest thin disk population and about 700 parsecs for the older thin disk, although there's a range of values for star of different ages. In simple terms, the density decreases in a smooth logarithmic way as you move away from the nominal plane.</span></em><i><span style="font-family:Arial;"><br /><br /></span></i><em><span style=" font-style: normal;font-family:Arial;" >The scale height is the vertical distance from the Galactic plane over which the density decreases by a factor of e, the natural logarithm base. So the density of stars on the nominal Galactic plane is only e times larger than the density a few hundred parsecs above the nominal plane. There is no sudden density spike. There is no dense collection of debris to pass through, we simply get a bit closer (on average) to the other stars as we pass through the plane.</span></em><i><span style="font-family:Arial;"><br /><br /></span></i><em><span style=" font-style: normal;font-family:Arial;" >What the paper means by the term Solar vicinity is the area a few parsecs around the Sun, i.e. at or near the nominal plane. The last time we crossed the plane was about 3 million years ago, and we won't cross it again for about 20 to 30 million years. This periodicity does not correlate with terrestrial mass extinctions.</span></em></span></blockquote><span style="font-size:85%;"><em></em></span> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><em><span style="font-family:Arial;"> </span></em></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><em><span style="font-family:Arial;"> ==</span></em></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><em><span style="font-family:Arial;"> </span></em></span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">In April 2011 I contacted the Mt Lemmon SkyCenter (which has discovered the most PHAs):</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;">Dear Mt Lemmon SkyCenter<br /><br />A friend of mine thinks Earth will be crossing the galactic plane in 2012,<br />but as far as I can make out, this will not happen for around 30 million<br />years.<br /><br />He also thinks that more Potentially Hazardous Asteroids are being<br />discovered because we are nearing the galactic plane. But my research<br />suggests that more PHAs were being discovered due to new observatories and technologies tackling the subject, and that the Mt Lemmon Survey, who has discovered the most, is now finding less, according to this:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/lists/YearlyBreakdown.html">http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/lists/YearlyBreakdown.html</a></span></i></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;"><br />Could you tell me:<br /><br />When will we cross the galactic plane?<br /><br />Are there more PHAs in existence because of Earth's position in the galaxy,<br />or are we just getting better at detecting them?<br /><br />Many thanks for your amazing work, and in anticipation of a reply.</span></i></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;"> </span></i></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> Here's the reply:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <blockquote style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:85%;">My name is Ed Beshore. The Catalina Sky Survey (which<br />includes the Mt. Lemmon Survey, the original Catalina Sky Survey, and<br />the Siding Springs Survey) are my responsibility, so Adam<br />thought it might be best if I tried to answer your questions.<br /><br />While I can't give you a precise time of crossing the galactic<br />plane, I can say confidently it will not do so as soon as 2012.<br />Right now, the Earth is about +2 deg north latitude in galactic coordinates,<br />and the Earth takes about 250M years to rotate around the<br />galaxy - so if Earth is going to cross the plane next year, we have<br />to move it! I think your estimate of ~30 M years sounds more<br />reasonable.<br /><br />The reason we are discovering more PHAs is because we only started<br />looking in earnest about 10 years ago. Catalina's 1.5 m reflector,<br />one of the largest telescopes routinely searching for hazardous<br />asteroids, only began its work in 2005. We are getting<br />better at the job, and larger telescopes are getting involved as<br />well, and that explains the surge in PHA discoveries. Indeed,<br />most of the PHAs have been in orbit in the inner solar system<br />for many hundreds of thousands of years, independent of our position<br />with respect to the galactic plane.<br /><br />Finally, the Sun's (and the solar system's) orbit around the<br />center of the Milky Way is close to circular and stays close to<br />the galactic plane. Any forces from the galaxy<br />on our environs are pretty near constant, so something like<br />crossing the plane of the galaxy should be a pretty<br />hum drum event.<br /><br />I hope this helps.<br /><br />Kind regards,<br /><br />Ed Beshore<br /><br />**********************************************************<br />Edward Beshore, Senior Staff Scientist<br />Lunar and Planetary Laboratory and the Steward Observatory</span></blockquote><p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">==</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;">If you’re interested in other rational explanations of 2012 myths, I highly recommend the following website:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"> <a href="http://www.2012hoax.org/">http://www.2012hoax.org/</a></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:85%;"><br /></span></p> <span style="font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:EN-AU;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SAfont-family:";font-size:85%;" >Have a great, superstition-free year!</span>orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-82808566480443218092010-07-14T18:21:00.000+10:002010-07-14T20:25:45.086+10:00Arnott's are not killing orangutans<p><span style="color:#000000;">Arnott's are NOT killing orangutans.</span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;"></span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;">I read yesterday that the maker of Tim Tams, Arnott's Australia, are endangering orangutans by using palm oil in their product(s).</span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;">This concerned me, especially since I read a National Geographic article a few months ago (about palm oil production's destruction of rainforests), and because I've been eating Arnott's' biscuits all my life.</span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;">So, I contacted Arnott's last night, asking them when they will be using sustainable palm oil in their Tim Tams. I have just received a reply. I'm not sure if I should post the whole thing, so in doubt, I will only post snippets.<br /></span></p><br /><p><span style="color:#000000;">Firstly, from the </span><a href="http://www.orangutans.com.au/Orangutans-Survival-Information/About-Palm-Oil.aspx"><span style="color:#000000;">site</span></a><span style="color:#000000;"> I was shown: <em>"The increased demand for palm oil, which is grown only in tropical environments, is fuelling destruction of the rainforest habitat of Sumatran and Bornean orangutans, pushing those endangered species even closer to extinction".</em></span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;"></span></p><p><span style="color:#000000;">Arnott's say the palm oil they use is <em>"currently sourced from peninsular Malaysia only" </em>(not Borneo or Sumatra), <em>"from land which has been used to produce palm oil or other agriculture crops for decades."</em> Thus, it's not endangering orangutans. Phew! I love Tim Tams! </span></p><br /><span style="color:#000000;">Secondly (and this relates to Arnott's' total use of palm oil in all their products, not just Tim Tams): <em>"While Arnott's Australia New Zealand (ANZ) uses only a small amount (less than 0.05%) of the total 40 million metric tonnes1 of palm oil produced annually [...] [f]rom August 2010, Arnott's ANZ will decrease its current palm oil usage by approximately 25 percent by replacing palm oil with alternative oils across a number of products."</em><br /><br />Furthermore: <em>"Working closely with its palm oil supplier, who is an active member of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO), Arnott's ANZ is targeting the use of 100% certified sustainable palm oil, if available, by 2015. Commencing 2011, the Company will take a gradual approach to achieving this target, shifting around 20% of its supply each year, if available, to certified sustainable palm oil."</em><br /><br />Yay, Arnott's!<br /></span>orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-7838258067142490142008-04-20T17:05:00.000+10:002008-04-20T17:44:21.844+10:00Da Twoof is Faith-Based.<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 51);">I just came across a good <a href="http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=320">summary</a> of the main Twoofer "scientists", by Edmund Standing.<br /><br />I particularly liked his conclusion:<br /></span><br />"In reality, there is no more evidence for the claim that 9/11 was an 'inside job' than there is that God created the world in six days, that the Holocaust never happened, that Jesus walked in America, or that an angel dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad. These are faith based positions, and to attempt to claim there are credible 'scientific' reasons for embracing conspiracies about the September 11th attacks is an insult both to real science and to the memory of those who died on that day."<br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 51);">Twoofers, like Creationists, use myths to explain myths. Creationists have their God of the Gaps; Twoofers have the mythical New World Order to explain the holes in their arguments. For example, the mythical therm*te was planted by the NWO without anyone coming forward about it - "the witnesses were paid off by the NWO". <br /><br />Other examples that are rife in the Twoof Movement: the NWO secretly must have "vanished" the AA77 plane passengers because "no plane hit the Pentagon"; the NWO removed AA77's parts from the Pentagon, somehow without anyone noticing. (Yet how can the NWO remove parts of a plane that, according to twoofers, didn't hit the Pentagon? Maybe the NWO can explain that, too. ;-) )<br /><br />Contradictions upon myths upon myths upon delusions.</span><br /></span>orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1925138841487091532007-05-05T17:50:00.000+10:002007-05-13T18:07:11.673+10:00How to lose a debate on 9/11 conspiracy theories<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7oVI2Gn3eKBxf_rL1UUOiOBVm4EmeAGXBRRs2CSeTQaaYsH5wG7jnf1Be5Ti8mT9xhIjL3CPX5dL5bO4lzzsw0_Hke-d4t0YWFas8VEPf7CKS_U0RSxncs-tNrNyNT1jd-hNf/s1600-h/Credo+Minadin.gif"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5060982338048052338" style="DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; CURSOR: hand; TEXT-ALIGN: center" alt="" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7oVI2Gn3eKBxf_rL1UUOiOBVm4EmeAGXBRRs2CSeTQaaYsH5wG7jnf1Be5Ti8mT9xhIjL3CPX5dL5bO4lzzsw0_Hke-d4t0YWFas8VEPf7CKS_U0RSxncs-tNrNyNT1jd-hNf/s400/Credo+Minadin.gif" border="0" /></a><br /><div>Have fun with your fantasy! Next time you're trying to assert that 9/11 was an inside job, mark this Bingo scorecard, and when you have used 5 fallacious arguments in a row, you'll know when to back down in defeat. (Or you can go and use the same argument in another forum, having not learned anything, as you do.)</div><br /><div></div><div>The kind and clever poster Minadin (from the James Randi Educational Foundation's forum) helped me create it, using my Truther Credo as a guide. Thankyou , Minadin.</div>orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-80684816808327278192007-01-17T19:19:00.000+11:002007-01-17T20:41:25.023+11:00The 9/11 Truther Credo<strong>The 9/11 Truther Credo.</strong><br /><br />a.k.a.: The 9/11 T<strong>WOO</strong>fer Credo<br /><br />Inspired by (and text in blue shamelessly stolen from) <a href="http://www.watchingyou.com/woowoo.html">The Woo-Woo Credo</a>.<br /><br /><br />Google “9/11 truth”. Think, “Wooooo”. Keep clicking on googlebombed links. Think, “Woo” some more. Refer to your googling as “real research”. Keep thinking, “Woo”.<br /><br /><br />Connect the dots. Read about “holes in the official story”. Make leaps to conclusions between one “hole” and another. Those dots just don’t connect themselves, you know.<br /><br /><br /><span style="color:#3366ff;">Never look for the simplest, most obvious cause of something. Refrain from mentioning </span><a href="http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/occams_razor.html"><span style="color:#3366ff;">Occam's Razor</span></a><span style="color:#3366ff;"> (it's your nemesis).</span> Instead, use Smacco’s Razor. “It couldn’t have been 19 hijackers – it must have been one big, corrupt gubmint/media.”<br /><br /><br />Fight strawmen valiantly. Repeatedly state that 9/11 was not caused by “Arabs in caves”, and that burning jet fuel alone did not bring down the buildings. Accuse your opponents of being George Bush-lovers, and dismiss their evidence accordingly.<br /><br /><br />Misuse technical terms as often as possible. The terms “squib” and “pyroclastic flow” are your friends.<br /><br /><br />Use one myth to support another myth.<br />“They were going to create a false-flag operation (Northwoods) in the Sixties therefore 9/11 was an inside job”.<br />“Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy therefore 9/11 was an inside job”.<br />“9/11 was an inside job therefore anyone who disagrees with me is a disinformation agent”.<br />“The “New World Order” is a group of shadowy masterminds who control every government and fake every world event, therefore 9/11 was a false-flag psy-op.”<br />"The Holocaust did not happen so 9/11 was an inside job." "The hijackers were cokeheads and Osama was mortally ill therefore the US gubmint orchestrated 9/11".<br /><br /><br />Smoke weed copiously, or act like you do. You can never have enough paranoia and crazy thoughts.<br /><br /><br />Embrace paranoia. When someone uses facts to prove one of your claims wrong, call them a “disinformation agent”, “shill”, or say that they are “spinning”.<br /><br /><br /><span style="color:#3366ff;">Always claim that the other guy is "closed-minded" and that you're as free-thinking as a newborn baby. Other woo-woos love the concept of "open-mindedness" and will take you into their inner circle without question. They have no tolerance for those "mean old nasty" types who demand evidence for everything.</span><br /><br /><br /><span style="color:#3366ff;">You must believe that the word "anomaly" means proof of</span> sinister gubmint activity.<br /><br /><br /><span style="color:#3366ff;">Use the word "anomaly" as often as possible.</span> If you can’t spell it, say ‘holes in the official story’.<br />Pontificate, use diatribe and rhetoric. Call your opponents, “sheeple” and urge them to “wake up”. They may have gone to sleep during your rants. They also need urging to “connect the dots” as you have.<br /><br /><br />Don’t investigate or talk to the organisations you accuse of conspiracy to murder. Post a picture of men in uniforms at the Pentagon or Shanksville and say they were “in on it” or “planting evidence” then walk away.<br /><br /><br />The few eyewitness reports which you have quotemined are worth much more than the thousands of eyewitness reports that don’t support your beliefs.<br /><br /><br />Use Caps-Lock in the word “TRUTH” wherever possible, or at least capitalize the first letter of “Truth”. Better still, SHOUT TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS. Bystanders may be as easily swayed as you are, you hope.<br /><br /><br />Call the “official story” (the scientific, evidence-based, professional investigation and conclusion) the “official conspiracy theory” so that easily swayed people will, in one fell swoop, stop using logic, science and evidence to analyse the material.<br /><br /><br />Call yourself a “skeptic”, so that easily swayed people will, in one fell swoop, think you are using logic, science and evidence in your discussion.<br /><br /><br /><span style="color:#3366ff;">Accuse your opponent of being a liar, or try some other tactic that will (hopefully) make him angry. If he responds in kind to your endless taunts, change the subject to his anger, and accuse him of name calling. If he accuses you of provoking him, then you have changed the subject of the debate. If he stays on topic, keep the heat up. The Believers in the audience will forgive the worst verbal attacks you use, but they will think even the mildest replies he makes to you are personal attacks that undermine his argument.<br /></span><br /><br />Change the subject. When discussing the WTC, quote the reports of loud explosions and Steven Jones’ theory of therm*te, and then when someone points out those quotes are incompatible, refer to or post a long cut’n’pasted article from rense.com about Bush needing to be impeached.<br /><br /><br />Use incredulity.<br />Re: WTC7:<br />“I can’t believe that a WTC building not hit by a plane collapsed!”<br />So WTC1 & 2 collapsed?<br />“Er, no, they had to be demolished too.”<br /><br /><br />Ask questions. That makes it look as though you’ve done some thinking (or parroting).<br /><br /><br />Ignore answers. Keep asking the same questions. Think, “Wooooo”. It’s fun to say, “Wooooo”. 9/11 is all about fun, right? And feeling like you’re doing some “real research” and investigation. Because. They’re. Never. Going. To. Re-open. 9/11. Based. On. Your. “Investigation”.<br /><br /><br />Have inflated self-esteem. “All the structural engineers in the world are wrong, but I know the TRUTH”. Remember, 9/11 is all about you proving you are not a pseudo-Einstein but the true heir to his throne.<br /><br /><br />Derail. In discussion forums, when others are discussing a topic, introduce a 9/11 twoof-related question. When someone replies with a quick debunk, make a huge post uploading all your brain’s delusions, and expect everyone to debunk them succinctly yet in depth, and to not refer to physics, engineering, FEMA, NIST, etc, or 9/11 Myths, Popular Mechanics, Mark Roberts, Wikipedia, etc, etc. When they try, accuse them of being disinformation agents. If they don’t try, claim you’ve proven the “inside job”.<br /><br /><br />Obstinately insist that 9/11 was an inside job, but do not name any names, organisations or methodologies as to how it was carried out, then claim you pity the victims’ families but do not perceive either how you are reopening old wounds or how you wish to rip their world apart again based on a few dumb questions.<br /><br />-----<br /><br />The following are contributions to the Credo from members of the JREF forum:<br /><br /><br />Once your "obvious" "common sense" has been shown to be insane gibberish, create a sock puppet, and then make the exact same arguments, but this time claim you can't use "common sense", you MUST use physics! Accuse anyone using "common sense" of being a small-minded idiot sheeple. But be sure to never, ever, actually use any physics (or math! Blech!). Just make broad claims about "physics states this" and "physics dictates that".<br />- Horatius<br /><br /><br />Don’t bother searching past threads and topics to see what issues have been discussed previously - your evidence is rock solid and anyone who sees it can’t help but be convinced of an inside job. Since the folks you are engaging don’t believe in an inside job, they could not have seen the evidence you have.<br />- defaultdot.xbe<br /><br /><br />Never engage people who respond politely and factually. Only engage those who are clearly irritated with having rebutted the same tripe over and over. Then complain that they have resorted to taunts and insults because they can't rebut your claims.<br />- TjW<br /><br /><br /><br />Any professional qualifications you or your fellow conspiracists have can be misrepresented, bolstered or simply plucked from thin air during a debate. Remember - the shills have the entire NWO apparatus on their side; you're allowed some leeway too.<br />- NickUK<br /><br /><br />Never post on topic - when backed into a corner change the subject. This prevents any subject from being resolved and allows debunked material to be recycled.Bring up previously debunked material. This cycle of the same material will prevent anyone from realizing that any one of the many theories lacks a cohesive narrative or makes sense globally.Treat all information and sources as equal. Youtube, AFP, other conspiracy sites, are equal to the NYT, scientific reports, and expert opinion. Anyone who disagrees is calling your sources liars.Never answer questions - your job is to ask the questions. This allows you to keep enough control of the debate to prevent the house of cards from falling all around you. Ban anyone who asks too many logical questions from your forums.<br />- Kage.<br /><br />Remember:<br />The news is controlled, unless you like the story.Government officials are liars, unless you like what they say.Use your own assumptions to prove your theory (i.e., you can ignore all government reports because the government did it).FACT typed in caps means “not even remotely true” [but Believers will fall for it]. Self-contradiction? OK! When in doubt, smear.<br />- Perry Logan<br /><br /><br />Always bring up USS Liberty as proof the US government kills its own people. When someone points out that the Israelis did it, say that was a "false flag" attack orchestrated by Lyndon Johnson. Accuse firefighters, cops, EMS techs, and rescue workers as being part of the conspiracy, afraid to speak the truth for fear of their jobs and lives. When called out on this gross insult, say you're really on the side of the firefighters, cops, and EMS techs.Offer no proof as to how the evil conspirators are able to hold thousands of cops, firefighters, and EMS techs in fear of their lives over not speaking the truth about the murder of their brothers in uniform.Declare every piece of evidence against you as being a forgery or a fraud. But don't explain who does the forgery, and how it was done, with no slip-ups. Insist that all official investigations are whitewashes, but don't explain how they should be done instead. Argue that the Bush administration planned 9/11 perfectly, but ignore the fact that they hosed up the search for Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq beyond all measure. Insist that there is no possibility of anything in the world happening as the result of chance, luck, weather, or other random elements. Everything that has ever been happened in human history is controlled by sinister forces who have not left any kind of paper or human trail. Repeat ad nauseum.<br />- Kiwiwriter<br /><br /><br />From the Bad Astronomy & Universe Today forum:<br /><br />Accuse all skeptics of any nationality of either being dumb deluded Americans or working for the secret U.S. Disinformation agency.<br />- Sigma_Orionis; Van Rijn<br /><br /><br />And finally,<br /><br /><br />Obstinately insist that 9/11 was an inside job, but do not name any names, organisations or methodologies as to how it was carried out. Claim you pity the victims’ families but do not perceive either how you are reopening old wounds or how you wish to rip their world apart again based on a few dumb questions.<br /><br />- Orphia Nay.orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1165387273510978952006-12-06T17:24:00.000+11:002006-12-06T17:41:13.526+11:00How Dylan Avery could become a decent film-maker<span style="font-family:verdana;">If Dylan Avery really wants to make it in movies, he should do a <em>'True</em> <em>Confessions of a Conspiracy Nutjob'</em> movie.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 1: How I started JAQing off.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 2: How I realised I could make a name for myself by pissing on graves.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 3: How my head got so big I needed a wide-screen tv to do justice to myself and I started inventing 'big-screen release' stories.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 4: How the love of notoriety obscured the shame of my 'do-overs'.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 5: Interviews with ex-Loosers: What were our wake-up calls?</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 6: Thanks for all your help, Mark Roberts, the ninjas and ScrewLooseChange - you were right and I was a dick.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 7: Legend in my own lunchbox: The internet is not as big in the real world as I thought.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 8: How the CTist's friend Paranoia turned on me and I started seeing FBI agents everywhere.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Part 9: To the families of victims whom I led up the garden path: I'm sorry. Truly. The perpetrators of the crimes suicided in the planes on that day, and there's no way I can now make them suffer for causing you such grievous loss. I lied, I gave you false hope, and I profited from your grief. I sincerely apologise.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">He could then be someone the mainstream media would actually talk about, and the public would actually pay to see his movie.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">Of course, as Brainster (from JREF & Screw Loose Change) implied, Avery would have to go to film school first, and as T.A.M. (from JREF) said, Avery would also have to learn how to tell a story visually, and he would have to write, or have written for him a good script.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">I don't really see any of this happening, sadly, but I live in hope. Arrogant pride will probably stop Dylan from admitting he's wrong. </span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">But if he sees that the public humiliation & paranoia he's experiencing now will only increase, he could really be proud if he makes an honest apology.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"></span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;">I used to want to believe in the whole 'lost civilisation', Atlantis, alien-built pyramids net bandwagon about 10 years ago, for about a year or less. I'm hoping that the younger, more resiliant twoofers will have a similar 'wake-up call' moment to mine, and realise that all the leaps of faith they've taken do not add up to a coherent world-view, or verifiable theory, and that every single leap of faith has a rational explanation that is centred in an unparanoid understanding of reality.</span>orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1163922786980555792006-11-19T18:47:00.000+11:002006-11-19T18:53:06.980+11:00Yes, I like penguins<a href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4057/4028/1600/kidpengskels.jpg"><img style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; CURSOR: hand" alt="" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4057/4028/320/kidpengskels.jpg" border="0" /></a><br />I drew this picture almost 20 years ago (minus a few months).<br />I found it recently and have been using it as a Halloween avatar at a few forums.orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1163921921867597692006-11-19T18:37:00.000+11:002006-11-19T18:38:41.870+11:00To the “911 Truth” OrganisationsIn just the first 10 pages of the results of a Google search for “911” and “truth”, I found a total of 28 organisations with both “911” and “truth” in their name and/or web address.<br /><br /><br />911Truth.org<br />Scholars for 9/11 Truth<br />911sharethetruth.com<br />ny911truth.org<br />The British 9/11 Truth Campaign<br />Veterans for 911 Truth<br />911truth.ie<br />911truthseekers.org<br />9/11 Truth LA<br />SF 911 Truth<br />911 Truth Radio<br />911fortheTruth.com<br />canadawantsthetruth911.blogspot.com<br />911truthmovement.org<br />pilotsfor911truth.org<br />911revealingthetruth.org<br />911truth-tucson.org<br />Vermont 9 11 truth<br />911 Truth Totnes<br />dc911truth.org<br />Sac Valley 9/11 Truth Pages<br />The 911 Truth Movement: News (911movement.org) (“No events for this month”)<br />911truthnow.org<br />911truth.co.uk<br />911TruthAction<br />Oxford 9/11 Truth<br />911truthintoaction.com<br />boston911truth.org<br />People’s Front of Judea<br />Judean People’s Front<br />Popular People’s Front of Judea (Oops, how did those last three get in there? ;) )<br /><br /><br />To those averring to be spreading “911 Truth”, what are you all doing, besides spreading misinformation, bad science, bad logic, lies and paranoia?<br /><br />Where is your much-called-for investigation?<br /><br />What are you doing about setting the investigation in motion?<br /><br />What type of investigation are you calling for?<br /><br />If you propose an independent investigation, who do you believe to be suitably independent to conduct it, and how do you plan to bring the alleged criminals to justice?<br /><br />If you propose a criminal trial, where are all your lawyers, demolition experts and structural engineers presenting evidence to Courts of your mythological ‘controlled demolition’?<br /><br />What is the consensus of “what really happened” – MIHOP or LIHOP; planes or no planes; passengers or no passengers; *therm*te or micronukes or C# or Star Wars Beam Weapons? <br /><br />How can you all be telling the truth if you cannot agree with each other on what happened, or how it happened?<br /><br />Where are your whistleblowers, each of whom would stand to make millions in royalties and commissions from publishing, film and public appearances, much more than a puny government ‘shill’ would earn, and each of whom could afford more bodyguards than George W. Bush himself?<br /><br />Where are your parliamentary screenings of “Truth” videos?<br /><br />Where are your transcripts or even rumoured reports of parliamentary discussions or even inadvertent mentions of the ‘the cover-up of the inside job’, despite the hosts of reporters present at every session and following every move of the politicians? For that matter, where are your investigative reporters?<br /><br /><br />These are just some of the general questions which I have for the 9/11 “Truthers”.orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1163578895356220942006-11-15T19:17:00.000+11:002006-11-19T18:37:10.363+11:00Impotent ‘Explosives’ and Steven Jones’ Self-Contradictions.I was reading Steven Jones’ paper again (well, conspiracy theorists <em>will</em> keep referring to it) and I thought in the interests of newbies to 9/11 CTs and for the record, I would write something addressing one of the main players in the Twoof Moovmint, instead of playing whack-a-mole with minor 9/11 deniers’ faulty reasoning.<br /><br />In his most recent paper, in the September edition of the Journal of 911 Studies, Jones actually claims, “unlike WTC7, the twin towers appear to have been exploded “<strong>top-down</strong>” rather than proceeding from the bottom – which is unusual for controlled demolition but clearly possible, depending on the order in which explosives are detonated.”<br /><br />However, he then proposes, “pre-positioned explosives provide a plausible and simple explanation for the observed detonations followed by complete building collapses”<br /><br />My initial quote appears after he refers to the following picture:<br /><a href="http://physics911.net/9-11%20Picture7%20(squib1).jpg">http://physics911.net/9-11%20Picture7%20(squib1).jpg</a><br /><br />Jones comments: “North Tower during <strong>top-down</strong> collapse. Notice mysterious horizontal plumes far below pulverization region. Unlike WTC7, the twin towers appear to have been exploded “top-down” rather than proceeding from the bottom – which is unusual for controlled demolition but clearly possible, depending on the order in which explosives are detonated. “<br /><br />He then refers to the following eyewitness accounts of ‘explosions’ which he somehow believes support his argument that explosives were used:<br /><br />- "<em>“For instance, at the start of the collapse of the South Tower a Fox News anchor reported:<br />There is an explosion at the base of the building… white smoke from the bottom… something happened at the base of the building! Then another explosion.”</em> (De Grand Pre, 2002, emphasis added.)”<br /><br />- "<em>“And Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory provides additional insights:<br />When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, ..I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.<br />Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?<br />A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too... I mean, I equate it to the building coming down and pushing things around, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever."</em> (Dwyer, 2005, Assistant Commissioner Stephen Gregory FDNY WCT2 File No. 91 10008.)”<br /><br /><br />If these are explosives (not explosions), they have no effect on the collapse at all. Why?<br />A) the basement examples occur well before the top-down collapse has commenced, and cause no visible structural damage to the towers’ integrity;<br />B) the few tiny ‘squibs’ occur well after the progressive collapse has commenced and cause no demonstrably visible total structural failure.<br /><br />How can anyone in their right mind say that these examples are evidence of explosives used to demolish the towers? If they are explosives, they serve no purpose, and are as much use as a teapot made of chocolate.orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1162971812389768392006-11-08T18:11:00.000+11:002006-11-08T18:43:32.413+11:00Quite happy, all things considering.<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.misterx.ca/MisterX/FOW%21/Orphia-Nay-2699307.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 200px;" src="http://www.misterx.ca/MisterX/FOW%21/Orphia-Nay-2699307.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"><a href="http://www.misterx.ca/MisterX/FOW%21/feauturedFLAKE65.htm">This</a> made me happy the other day. </span><span style="font-family:verdana;"><span style="font-family:verdana;">It's nice to do other things besides debating 9/11 conspiracy theorists.<br /><br /><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: verdana;">Yesterday was my 15th wedding anniversary. We had a very long lunch and had fun afterwards watching the Melbourne Cup with friends. I was a bit sozzled by the early evening and had an early night after dinner.</span><br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"><span style="font-family:verdana;"><br /><br />I'm also enjoying the recent thread at the JREF forum called <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=67717">The Troofers dist... dixt... dictionary</a>. It lists new words describing elements of the 9/11 "Truth Movement".<br /><br />My contributions so far:<br /><br /></span></span><b>exspurt </b> <i>(n)</i>: 1. one of the members of the pee-er (q.v.) reviewed 'Jurinal (q.v.) for 9/11 Studies'. 2. anyone with a website who's compiled lots of ahumptions (q.v.) and coinvidences (q.v.).<br /><span style="font-family:verdana;"><span style="font-family:verdana;"><br /></span></span><b>evidense </b><i>(n)</i> : 1. misinterpreted data. e.g. photos of steel beams cut during the clean-up said to be evidence of umplosions (q.v.) such as *therm*te ; 2. coinvidence(s) (q.v.), ahumption(s) (q.v.).<br /><br /><b>dodgic </b>(n) : thought process and reasoning used by twoofers. Involves attempting to change the subject when faced with facts that destroy their assertions (usually by starting a new discussion, or posting heaps of links or pasting complete articles of ahumptions irrelevant to the matter at hand). Also involves the Oddus Operandi of the 'Truth Movement":<br /><br /><a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2066739&postcount=29" target="_blank">http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...9&postcount=29</a><br /><br /><b style="font-style: italic;">"T</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ake your message to the 'net</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">R</b><span style="font-style: italic;">emain steadfast in your conclusions, even in the face of evidence to the contrary</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">U</b><span style="font-style: italic;">nder no circumstances make a concrete claim</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">T</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ell them you are, "Just asking questions"</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">H</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ope they don't notice your logical fallacies</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">M</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ake sure you post lots of pictures</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">O</b><span style="font-style: italic;">verlook any evidence that doesn't support your hypothesis</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">V</b><span style="font-style: italic;">eil your lack of comprehension by link dumping threads</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">E</b><span style="font-style: italic;">vade calls to show your work, for you know you haven't done it</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">M</b><span style="font-style: italic;">eddle with quotes so they say what you need</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">E</b><span style="font-style: italic;">quate your opponents with shills and mouthpieces</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">N</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ever admit that you might be wrong</span><br /> <b style="font-style: italic;">T</b><span style="font-style: italic;">ell everyone you know, even if they're not interested."</span><br />(- Arkan Wolfshade.)orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36104323.post-1160988088570312692006-10-16T18:36:00.000+10:002006-10-16T18:44:50.213+10:00Why did I create a blog?<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4057/4028/1600/alicepengy.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4057/4028/200/alicepengy.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><br />I only wanted to view some comments at 'Screw Loose Change' and I ended up signing up for a blog instead. I did actually have a blog here a few years ago (with the same name), but I forgot the password and the email address that I used to make it (after posting to it several times).<br /><br />A bit about me:<br /><br />I think I was the first at JREF (randi.org) to start <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66149">a discussion</a> on 9/11 conspiracy theories.<br /><br /><br />I spend a lot of time debating 9/11 conspiracy theorists, or 9/11 troofers, as we call them.<br /><br />I like penguins.<br /><br />I think monkeys are funny.<br /><br />I think it's hilarious that all the rats at the Loose Change forum are jumping ship today. "Splitters! Splitters!"orphia_nayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01935021246612203598noreply@blogger.com0